Defunkd

[Happy1]

A bit of history here.
The king of Showco shirts is Jason Sprinzen. We all know this. He purchased a Original 1973 Led Zeppelin shirt from Christie’s for 1625$. See link
https://antiquesroadshowinsider.wordpre ... -sprinzen/
here we have a 1972 shirt owned by Jason
http://www.ledzeppelin.com/photos/memor ... ntage-swag
The 1975 Shows were produced by Concerts West See link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppe ... _Tour_1975
Here are the Staff shirts See link
http://www.ledzeppelin.com/taxonomy/term/306?page=1
Do we see any black ones. No...
Can we get a response from Jason if these are real or Fake? See Link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Led-Zeppelin-Sh ... SwCGVYB4LB
My vote is Fake

[maxvintage]

Hi Happy-

That's a pretty hefty charge to throw down. I have zero doubts on Wyco's shirt. It is absolutely legitimate.

Before moving too far ahead, I've got to first ask you how many former Showco roadies you've chatted with about their old shirts? Also, how many of the shirts have you seen in person, examined up close etc? Have you done anything outside of looking at pictures online?

There are a many of different variations of Showco shirts - even from the same tour. I did the interviews with Jason that were featured on the Defunkd blog a few years back. The variations are practically endless. No one on the planet knows more than he does about them and even he doesn't know of all the ones out there. The company didn't really keep records on that kind of thing and the original shirt maker is no longer with us.

Because I search ebay somewhat frequently, I also know that the seller Wyco bought it from is a former Showco roadie who sold several less desirable Showco shirts in the months/weeks before he listed the Led Zeppelin. I think the original owner still has a few other shirts as well.

In any event, I'll reach out to Jason and see if he cares to respond.

Best,

Max

[jimmyj]

I am by no means a Showco expert. Actually I think in my years selling vintage t-shirts I've only ever sold one, maybe. But I have noticed a variance in prints and colors - seems like a super diverse collection. Given Max's comments - I think it would be unfair to keep the title of this thread as is, as it goes beyond just this one t-shirt. I've not known Wyco to sell fakes.

[maxvintage]

In regards to Concerts West claim, yes they were the promoters for the tour. Showco was a sound company, not a concert promoter - big difference there.

[WyCo_Vintage]

Max pretty much said all that needs to be said in regards to the questions posed in this thread.

This particular Led Zeppelin shirt was purchased directly from a the original Showco member.

This ELO Showco came from the same person as well
http://wycovintage.com/product/1976-sho ... our-shirt/

The "King of Showco", Jason Sprinzen, is someone who I would call a friend, I am in contact with pretty regularly and if there was anything wrong with this shirt, he would be the first to let me know.

Thanks for the responses, Max and Jimmy, and I hope this helps answer your questions Happy1.

Happy holidays!

-Patrick

[Happy1]

Well,
As long as you want to add that ELO showco shirt to the mix.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Showco-Inc-Shir ... SwGIRXX6QZ
I Believe that one is also Fake.
Along with this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Lynyrd-Sky ... SwL7VWjU7L
If you are best buds with Jason have him chime in on this post.
To many years of fake sales does not make it right.
Have Jason chime in and say these are legit.
Simple right?

[Happy1]

Also 42 Showco shirts here. No ringers. Mostly spruce short sleeve and some baseball style ones.

[WyCo_Vintage]

If you have any questions, feel free to message Jason on facebook. In your obvious troll attempt, if you had any interest other than being malicious, you would have done so already. I know you haven't because I spoke to a Jason shortly after your initial posts. I have no interest in continuing to feed you.

[jimmyj]

Hey Happy -

Agreed - you can easily contact Jason - he's easy to reach here:

https://www.facebook.com/ShowcoTheBook/

After your first claim was addressed I think it's fair that this become your responsibility to prove - as you just shifted the focus to other tees.

Please get in touch with him and we'll pick things up should you get a direct quote from him that particular items are not legit.

[Happy1]

WyCoVintage
Is loaded with Fake shirts. Here is another...Please...
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/4910465 ... ?ref=hp_rv

100% Fake.....
Deadstock shirt printed with a old School print.....Just look at hit ebay and etsy site....Showco shirts are fake...Why should I contact him...Jason would of bought the lynard shirt if it was real...

[Happy1]

I will post a picture of my Showco shirts..

[WyCo_Vintage]

WyCoVintage
Is loaded with Fake shirts. Here is another...Please...
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/4910465 ... ?ref=hp_rv

100% Fake.....
Deadstock shirt printed with a old School print.....Just look at hit ebay and etsy site....Showco shirts are fake...Why should I contact him...Jason would of bought the lynard shirt if it was real...

Deadstock? Look at the size of that shirt, you really think that's the original size? Probably would fit you though, looks about the perfect size for a troll.

You really should reach out to Jason, he's very helpful and informative. After your initial post, Jason asked me what I wanted for the Zeppelin Showco. If Jason had any issue with my Showcos, without hesitation, he would let me know. That's a fact.

[WyCo_Vintage]

http://www.defunkd.com/blog/2012/02/14/ ... case-pt-v/

http://www.defunkd.com/blog/wp-content/ ... Shirts.jpg


Wonder what the second shirt on the bottom left corner is.......?

[jimmyj]

Happy1 lets go into 2017 in a positive note. Ive done my own investigation and found Wycos tees to be fine. And as he mentioned Jason himself inquired about purchasing. Love to see your tees please share in a separate thread lets leave this one in 2016.

[mfin433]

WyCo Vintage has some very good vintage shirts, however this is inexcusable for a reputable company. This Nirvana In Utero Tour Shirt is a reproduction. Wrong era tag and they are selling it for $805. Lol.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/482339591/ ... gallery_12

[WyCo_Vintage]

I'm pretty confident this shirt is from 1993 but would love to hear why you think it's not. I did some research and provided links below backing up the year this shirt was produced. I'll also let you in on some methodology here in hopes you don't go around saying damaging words due to your own misunderstandings.

First thing I do when trying to understand a tag that I don't understand, is I look for other tags and consistencies similar to the tag I'm looking for. Next step, look at hanes tags from this era. We all have seen how tags can move through into the next generation, hanes blue tags, late 80s FOTL showing up in late 90s, even champion blue bars showed up in the 80s. This particular hanes tag has shown up on 1994 Metallica reissues so I was familiar with it but still somewhere skeptical before I listed it. The logo, the H and the colors are very similar to other 90s tags I have seen previously. I do deep ebay searches, description 1993 hanes shirt, then go tag hunting. If I wonder if a shirt is authentic and need help figuring it out, I look for other shirts with the same graphics and see if it's more commonly available and what build of shirts it was printed upon. This will help in finding your more commonly printed shirts and reproductions as well. The shirt you mentioned is a 1993 Nirvana TOUR shirt. Next I would try to look up and find out if this print is readily available or has been listed previously. Being a tour shirt, there are going to be less versions of this shirt available so that means it's gonna be harder to find. I could not find any shirts, vintage or reproduced that line up with this shirts graphics.

Here are some great examples of 90s Hanes tags and a Grateful Dead from same time frame with same tag.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bud-Faubel-the- ... Sw9GhYZ~os

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grateful-Dead-S ... Sw4GVYSZbs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Primus-1993-Vin ... SwzaJX6TJx

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-Womens-Mel- ... Sw2xRYU15A


Let me know if you have any questions or need help with anything else!

-Patrick Klima
http://www.WyCoVintage.com

[FiftyFiftyMan]

As this awful 1993 Hanes TV commercial proves (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caN_0eAlNYU), the swoosh through the H logo was already established by then. I used to assume it was a late 90's incarnation, likely because that design was used well into the 2000's. Wrong I was. Also, Hanes was already outsourcing some of their assembly, and even outright manufacture, out of the USA by 1993 (pre-NAFTA). Granted, I could not find anything online stating when Hanes began outsourcing to Haiti (I have seen "assembled in Mexico" and Jamaica tags from that era). Tags with "made of US fabric" removed became more common mid-late 90's, post NAFTA.

[timetraveltees]

I have no horse in this race obviously and not trying to stir the pot, and apologies if I'm speaking out of turn, but as a collector and seller myself, I'm a bit of a tag junkie and I do honestly believe the Nirvana shirt to be a later modern-ish reprint. The examples you had of double-tag Hanes shirts were later reprints, and in my experience the double tags in general are 1998/99 and later. The Jerry Garcia shirt I know my deadhead cousin bought in 1999 from a head shop (I remember it because I thought it was ridiculous and he wore it for the first time to my high school graduation), it's the same shirt and definitely had the same copyright date because he still has it and wears it occasionally but the tag is long gone. And like some of the later Metallica reissues with Hanes double tags or other tags, they maintain the old copyright date because they're using the same art. There's no hard and fast rule for this, but a lot of bands or merch companies have done this in the past and it caused confusion for lots of people. It even happens with Snoopy shirts on a 90s Artex or Jostens tag and saying "vintage 1964 Snoopy Shirt" or something because they used the 1964 copyright of Peanuts itself, rather than the print production year for some reason.

The hot rod shirt would appear to be a smoking gun as far as print date and tag match, but I would say it's more likely that the driver did that art and originally printed in 1993 and continued printing it for a long time after to sell at rallies and what not (very common in that world). In fact, just out of curiosity I Googled it and found that an automotive website is still selling shirts with this same exact design in sizes S-XXXL so it's definitely been in print recently. Can't make out the copyright date from the photo but it appears to be the same as the link to the one on ebay. Here's the shirt on this website: http://www.kramerauto.com/proddetail.asp?prod=z01-01

For the Jerry Garcia shirt there's a lot of them in circulation. And in my experience the Winterland copyrighted shirts from 1993-95 were for the most part printed with Winterland tags. The later reprints were Hanes or other brands, early-late 90s were the single tag Hanes made in the USA. The much later reprints (98/99-present) were always double tag Hanes or other brands, usually made elsewhere, or at the very least assembled in Mexico, Haiti, etc. Hanes definitely used that distinctive arrow logo in the mid-late 90s but the double tag for sure wouldn't have been around in 1993.

In my opinion this would be the timeframe for the Jerry printings:
Original 1993 Winterland Tag - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jerry-Garcia-Gr ... SwXAJYWAtm

Early-late 90s reprint - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Jerry-G ... Sw2xRYTK7R

1998/99-present reprint - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grateful-Dead-S ... Sw4GVYSZbs

The Primus and Mel Tillis you're dead on about with the era matching the year on the shirt, but like I said those are single tag Hanes and made in the USA with no qualifiers. So those would have been early 90s for sure.

And that's why I think the Nirvana shirt in question isn't actually from 1993. This seems like a one-off modern day head shop bootleg reprint more than anything since there aren't any other matching examples in the wild. And the official tour shirts from that year have a slightly different front print and also have the back print with the cities, and the two that are listed now have a Delta tag and a Screen Stars Best tag which would be period correct. I could be wrong, feel free to correct me. Like I said, I hope you don't take offense to this but I've been reading this thread and I do feel the era is off for sure on the Nirvana one based on what I know from collecting for the last 20 years and selling on and off for a decade or so.

[WyCo_Vintage]

Thanks for your response. While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I want to point out the race car shirt you linked to, is not the same print or even same style of shirt, look at graphics and the pocket on the shirt. We have no real time stamp for Hanes shirts. There are many versions and as I previously mentioned, you see 80s tags show up with 90s graphics (I linked one below). We don't know when screen printers started using certain shirts because they printed on shirts they had access to from their suppliers. If the supplier had a bulk amount of black Hanes blue tags from the 80s, when his customers asked for black tees in 1992, those would be the first shipped out if that was the stock the supplier still had. This is why you see crossovers. I just want to say that if my intention was to be misleading, removing a label from this shirt would've achieved just that.

I moved the tag search on ebay up to 94 and found many more double tags on 1994 shirts and about 10 different Hanes tags in total from that year. Some coming from other countries and variations of 50/50, Heavyweight, and Beefy. I actually wondered if it might be a parking lot tee which would explain not seeing any copies. Under your hypothesis, there's no reason to print tour on a shirt that would've been made in the late 90s as there was no real demand for Nirvana at that time. You could buy any original Nirvana shirt around that time for under $20 so I don't see why someone would reprint. The traditional smiley graphic and dante's inferno are one color prints that would be easy to reproduce and are more widely accepted as the back print is not necessary and normally not included on the repops. I've NEVER seen another copy of this shirt.

Here are some more links for reference.

1994 double tag Travis Tritt Tour https://goo.gl/FLL34R

Really strange hanes tag goo.gl/clDFYE

Pitfall promo 1994 double tag goo.gl/p5Th9q

1997 hanes double tag goo.gl/XpGzkQ

1994 Biohazard winterland hanes long tag goo.gl/bFerm7

[WyCo_Vintage]

Here's more links as it only allowed 5 in a post

1994 celtics double tag https://goo.gl/Bv2Xyi

pack of 94 hanes shirt for logo reference (made in Jamaica) https://goo.gl/mK5ZF9

1994 woodstock with 80s hanes tag https://goo.gl/cbLFYc

1994 suns hanes double tag https://goo.gl/VoOygu

1994 tie dye double tag https://goo.gl/F1NLLx